Former members of the Obama Administration had confirmed that the president hoped to block an Ellison victory. “He wanted to stop the Sanders wing of the party from taking over,” one such official told me. That was certainly the view of Jeff Weaver, the Vermont senator’s former campaign manager. “The sole reason Perez is running is to stop Ellison,” he told me angrily. “He has no platform of his own.” Now, on a Saturday morning in Atlanta, the campaign for chairman was reaching its climax. On a distant stage, beyond a roped-off enclosure corralling the 447 members of the D.N.C., the candidates and their supporters were addressing the crowd, pledging to rebuild the party at the state level and reconnect with voters and local communities. Behind the scenes, or at least out of sight of the rank and file, party heavyweights were employing more hard-nosed tactics. https://harpers.org/archive/2017/07/its-my-party/ So, your party's suffered devastating electoral losses and been reduced to a minority in all three branches of government? What ever could the solution to that be? Why, change nothing at all and elect the same types of leaders over and over again, of course. Because that's the Democratic way. It's fitting that Obama will go down in history as the guy who gave the country to Trump. |
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carljenk posted...
Keep pushing that fake news. No one is biting. Harper's magazine is fake news?
261 - More troll food than any other board on the net.
What the right sounds like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rYqF_BtIwAU |
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They are GOP plants to take down the f***ing Democratic party. They know the only protection the poor and workers had was the Democratic party. So the GOP infiltrated and destroyed it from within.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Thereal50inchDLP -My youtube http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2014/02/fibber-mcgee-and-molly.html -Best show ever
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TonyKojima posted...
We are purging these people from the party. We are purging your politicians from office too!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Thereal50inchDLP -My youtube http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2014/02/fibber-mcgee-and-molly.html -Best show ever
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kaiolino posted...
luigi33 posted...This is the new GOP Strat now? Try to pit the resistance against eachother and forgetting Trump? Sadly, it's a pretty good strategy on their part as democrats tend to be more big tent and have many different principles and therefore tend to fight with each other more.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
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Heineken14 posted...
kaiolino posted...luigi33 posted...This is the new GOP Strat now? Try to pit the resistance against eachother and forgetting Trump? You mean they tend to be spoiled children who refuse to give an inch if they dont get their way thus making the party stuck in the mud and failing?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Thereal50inchDLP -My youtube http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2014/02/fibber-mcgee-and-molly.html -Best show ever
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Heineken14 posted...
kaiolino posted...luigi33 posted...This is the new GOP Strat now? Try to pit the resistance against eachother and forgetting Trump? And you have people like Whoapro who are willing to foster this when their ego is bruised.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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Politics isn't nice. Which sucks.
But the Sanders wing isn't properly arming itself against heavy-handed political machines from both. It's admirable to run sterile, near-PACless efforts, but that's not how you win. What's inescapable at the moment is that Ellison didn't have the votes he needed even in the earliest weeks of the DNC race even if things tightened somewhat.
This space for rent
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I'd rather our party be in shambles than be the scum sucking parasites the republicans have become to political donors and radical ideologues like the koch brothers.
"It's as simple as A-B-C Mr. Baskin...lock your windows."
"Hey, we were just getting into the significance of nuclear love!" |
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Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels.
Yep, this topic holds no surprises for me. |
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TheShadowViper posted...
Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. How on earth is Tom Perez a 'neoliberal' precisely?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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TheShadowViper posted...
Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. Lol, I like that you got so butthurt about me doing... who knows, probably called you out for something stupid.... that you had to mention me.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
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LightSnake posted...
TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. We're talking about Obama, Lightsnake. Please, keep up. His name appears twice in the topic title. Or are you gonna try to convince us that Obama is a progressive? Haha! Like Hillary right? Haha... And Heineken, I wouldn't be proud to be mentioned in that company. I'm not a fan of those who pretend to be liberal while shilling for corporations and selling out the American people. So naturally I wouldn't like you. |
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TheShadowViper posted...
LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. Yes, I'd say Obama was a liberal and a progressive on a number of issues.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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Oh Whoapro, you were doing so well too and finally moving on from your s*** fits over people calling you the wrong name. No need to go back down the angry and rage filled rabbit hole, is there?
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TheShadowViper posted...
Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. SPM was suspended around two weeks ago.
"Happiness can be found in even the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light."
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LightSnake posted...
TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. Yep, you've finally jumped the shark. I can't even take you seriously anymore, and I could still do that after reading your pre-election, "It doesn't matter if Sander's supporters support Hillary, she can't lose" bulls***. I know the following is a hard concept for you, but take it slow and try to get it. Saying you are progressive =/= actually being progressive Saying you are gonna do progressive things and then not actually doing them =/= actually being progressive Enriching corporations, advocating globalism, and continuing to oversee the shift in wealth to the upper echelons while taking a dump on citizen's rights =/= actually being progressive Not giving support for something before it becomes popular, then jumping on it when it becomes a political reality =/= actually being progressive But who am I kidding, I shouldn't be surprised. Your kind has a long history of pretending to be something you are not. It is the only way anyone would ever vote for you. |
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TheShadowViper posted...
And Heineken, I wouldn't be proud to be mentioned in that company. I'm not a fan of those who pretend to be liberal while shilling for corporations and selling out the American people. So naturally I wouldn't like you. Phew, good thing I don't do that!
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
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TheShadowViper posted...
LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. Don't forget getting us in/leaving us involved in about 7 wars.
3DS FC:2939-0431-7791
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Heineken14 posted...
TheShadowViper posted...And Heineken, I wouldn't be proud to be mentioned in that company. I'm not a fan of those who pretend to be liberal while shilling for corporations and selling out the American people. So naturally I wouldn't like you. If only you could stop supporting people that do..
#NotAllPepes
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lostsaint8911 posted...
Heineken14 posted...TheShadowViper posted...And Heineken, I wouldn't be proud to be mentioned in that company. I'm not a fan of those who pretend to be liberal while shilling for corporations and selling out the American people. So naturally I wouldn't like you. Well I'm not a Donnie supporter, so... I mean... there's that.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
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rockman202 posted...
TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. Very true. I grossly overlooked Obama's ample use of drones and "flexible" red lines along with his questionable use of High School sports terms to describe what he would later say was our worst enemy in the region. But there are dozens more examples of him doing things that do not add up with his rhetoric, so you'll have to forgive the oversight. |
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Ellesarien posted...
Obama a Neoliberal?? Right, because, as we all know, pushing for more war, expanding mass surveillance of US citizens, pushing multiple trade deals, cracking down on whistleblowers, supporting and passing republican plans, bailing out the big banks, not prosecuting the criminals who caused the crash, not prosecuting war criminals; these are all things a true, left win progressive would support and are in no way right wing.
3DS FC:2939-0431-7791
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TheShadowViper posted...
LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...TheShadowViper posted...Let's see... a neoliberal gets called out so that must mean Lightsnake, SPM, and Heineken will be summoned from the abyss to defend their owner and attempt to talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic in order to hide the fact they are corrupt weasels. People didn't vote for Obama for a second term? I like how mot of what you say are just meaningless vagaries that have no practical application to the discussion of Obama's presidency. Btw, gay marriage wasn't exactly an uncontroversial issue before Obama embraced it. It was considered quite risky to come out in favor when he and Biden (the guy who pushed it along) did. Has anyone informed you that you're acting hysterical here?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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rockman202 posted...
Ellesarien posted...Obama a Neoliberal?? you have to love these silly purity tests. But hen you bring up things like healthcare, workers rights and the environment, you guys stand mum because it's not your pet issue. PS: Obamacare isn't a Republican plan. Factually speaking.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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LightSnake posted...
rockman202 posted...Ellesarien posted...Obama a Neoliberal?? So you admit, he isn't a liberal, he is at best a centrist. PS: Obamacare is a Republican plan, first thought up by the Heritage Foundation, pushed for by Newt Gringrich and the Republicans in the 90's and first passed by a Republican governor by the name of Mitt Romney. You know, factually speaking.
3DS FC:2939-0431-7791
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LightSnake posted...
Btw, gay marriage wasn't exactly an uncontroversial issue before Obama embraced it. It was considered quite risky to come out in favor when he and Biden (the guy who pushed it along) did. Has anyone informed you that you're acting hysterical here? Yeah. I remember after he said he was for it a lot of people questioned whether hed get reeclected since black people are heavy Christians and they would turn away from him.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
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No. I'm saying one can be a liberal and hold stances you disagree with. There's little about being liberal that demands how you fall on trade deals or prosecuting bankers.
And...no. No, you're blatantly wrong about Obamacare being a Republican plan. All they had in common was a mandate. http://lawyersgunsmon.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ACA2.png Here's a comparison in chart form....can you point out where in Obamacare they gut Medicaid? Or where Medicare is replaced with a voucher system? Or where insurer regulation is cut? I'd like to know. Or is this a bit of trivia you once heard somewhere that you've never looked into to see if it was verifiable and true with the plans publicly available? As for Massachusetts...here's a fun fact: Romney wasn't really that involved. The Massachusetts liberals in the Senate and House of the State were responsible for much of it and had to keep passing sections when Romney kept vetoing. If your best defense is "Well, Mitt Romney passed an initial bill when a supermajority of legislatures passed it, ergo Republican plan, then that's a poor defense.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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LightSnake posted...
rockman202 posted...Ellesarien posted...Obama a Neoliberal?? I don't want a neoliberal so Obama governing more as a left-centrist was perfectly fine with me. I wanted him to be more liberal as far as our foreign military activities but I am not a blind fool that doesn't understand that every politician sooner or later needs to move closer to the center compared to their campaign promises. I do not want an extremist from either political ideology running our country. It's a recipe for a damn disaster and will only lead to a constant exchange of one extremist ideology to the other.
I will try and see it from your point of view, but I doubt we'll be able to fit both our heads up there.
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There's also this claim Obama kept pushing for 'more war' like anything he ever did was equivalent to, say, Iraq.
I mean, a lot of what Obama did with foreign policy were what he promised in the campaign. He flat out said "Yep, I'll talk with Iran," "Yep, I'll go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden," and "Yeah, I'll put more troops in Afghanistan."
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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@rockman202
Your rebuttal to post 46 awaits.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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It was known from the start Perez joined because Obama picked him to counter Ellison.
It's why I find it funny when people act like the Clinton's had any true power by the 2016 primary. The Democratic Party ran through him by then and still does. People got out of Hill's way because Obama himself picked her to be his successor.
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]
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MegatokyoEd posted...It was known from the start Perez joined because Obama picked him to counter Ellison.
It's why I find it funny when people act like the Clinton's had any true power by the 2016 primary. The Democratic Party ran through him by then and still does.
People got out of Hill's way because Obama himself picked her to be his successor.
I don't quite think Perez was 'picked' in such a way. Encouraged, yes, but I think he wanted the job and was late in declaring because he was sizing up Maryland in 2018Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenLightSnake posted...There's also this claim Obama kept pushing for 'more war' like anything he ever did was equivalent to, say, Iraq.
I mean, a lot of what Obama did with foreign policy were what he promised in the campaign. He flat out said "Yep, I'll talk with Iran," "Yep, I'll go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden," and "Yeah, I'll put more troops in Afghanistan."
Guys, Obama is a liberal because he didn't start a trillion dollar war over a lie! /s
You just pulled the "he is not as bad as George W. Bush" card...Every time I think you can sink no lower you manage to find a way. Kudos for always defying expectations.Jimayo posted...carljenk posted...
Keep pushing that fake news. No one is biting.
Harper's magazine is fake news?
All you have is theories from Bernie's former campaign manager and some Nebraska politician who is a big Ellison supporter.
Maybe get some facts before throwing around words like "confirmed".Moustache twirling villian
http://i.imgur.com/uV2Wf1H.jpg- KerbeyLightSnake posted...I also look favorably on his excellent labor department, civil rights enforcement and getting millions of people healthcare
I'm sure you do. Because everyone thinks the last 8 years has been good for civil rights, labor, and medical care in this country. /s
What was that famous Obama quote again?
"If you like your constitutional, civil, and labor rights you can keep them, while getting an entirely affordable medical plan that addresses soaring rates and higher drug prices."
*laughs under breath*
"Wow, I think they actually bought that bulls***!"
No...that wasn't it...TheShadowViper posted...LightSnake posted...
I also look favorably on his excellent labor department, civil rights enforcement and getting millions of people healthcare
I'm sure you do. Because everyone thinks the last 8 years has been good for civil rights, labor, and medical care in this country. /s
What was that famous Obama quote again?
"If you like your constitutional, civil, and labor rights you can keep them, while getting an entirely affordable medical plan that addresses soaring rates and higher drug prices."
*laughs under breath*
"Wow, I think they actually bought that bulls***!"
No...that wasn't it...
Errr...actually, Obama's department of Labor was the most effective since...Frances Perkins' stint in the role. And yeah, 22 million more people insured is a good thing.
Plus civil rights were defended by his DOJ far more. Is your complaint "Obama didn't fix everything overnight?"Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenLightSnake posted...kaiolino posted...
Remember when kensage hid his new alt so well that almost nobody realized it was him?
Called it.
@LightSnake, why do you keep fueling the lie that Whoapro is Kensage when you damn well know we're not the same person?
And why do you think I shouldn't troll in response to being repeatedly lied about?Obama is not a progressive by the simple fact that he tried to obstruct progressives. Also look at him trying to cut Social Security and cutting food stamps.
Starks posted...What must frustrate progressives the most is that a cookie-cutter Dem, even a newcomer, can fill out an FEC form and things simply happen. Canvassing and staffing will be mostly taken care of right off the bat.
And if they continue to use that against us we will continue to completely undermine their party. I'm not voting for this s***.
It's been almost 30 years of Third Way leadership at this point. Progressives deserve a chance.
MegatokyoEd posted...It was known from the start Perez joined because Obama picked him to counter Ellison.
Yes but establishment Dems constantly denied it during the race.
I don't get why anyone still listens to Obama though when his recent decisions have all proven embarrassing failures.
The Great Muta 22 posted...No need to go back down the angry and rage filled rabbit hole, is there?
They started it. I was completely avoiding trolling and not posting anything other than my honest opinion in a civil fashion. Then LightSnake got everyone lying about who I am again.
I'm not going to have my opinion censored. If people are going be biased and slander me just because of my opinion I'm going to make viewing the topic title as unpleasant as possible for them.Sojy posted...LightSnake posted...
kaiolino posted...
Remember when kensage hid his new alt so well that almost nobody realized it was him?
Called it.
@LightSnake, why do you keep fueling the lie that Whoapro is Kensage when you damn well know we're not the same person?
And why do you think I shouldn't troll in response to being repeatedly lied about?
Why are you trying to even pretend you're not Whoapro at this point?
You realize this vindictive "how dare everyone call me the wrong name" thing is only driving the nails in deeper to the coffin?Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenLightSnake posted...@rockman202
Your rebuttal to post 46 awaits.
Oh sorry, had to deal with losing my power for awhile and trying to figure out why it went out.
You say that there are differences between Romney and Obamacare, obviously, but the main health care policy surrounding both of them is the insurance mandate, the right wing option that leaves the insurance companies in power,that Obama and the corporate shills in the democratic party are pushing as the best system. This is a right wing position that Obama, when he had a super majority and could have pushed through any single health care system he wanted, decided to push through congress. Not the more centrist government option, and not the liberal single payer.
Also your argument that Romney never supported the health insurance that was passed in his state is kind of a a mute point when he went around defending it and pushed it as a health insurance policy that would fit the entire nation.3DS FC:2939-0431-7791LightSnake posted...Why are you trying to even pretend you're not Whoapro at this point?
I never confirmed or denied being Whoapro, I'm saying that either way I'm not Kensage.
LightSnake posted...You realize this vindictive "how dare everyone call me the wrong name" thing is only driving the nails in deeper to the coffin?
I reiterate, on this account I was posting in civil fashion without trolling, and doing nothing but sharing my honest opinion at first. I was not spamming, I was not insulting anyone.
You decided that, simply because you disagreed with my opinion, that it was a good idea to tag me with the name of an account that you know is repeatedly falsely accused of being the alt of a frequently banned right-wing troll. And that you are at fault for the start of that false rumor to begin with.
You don't seriously think you guys get to gossip about me but I don't get to retaliate, do you?@rockman202
rockman202 posted...
Oh sorry, had to deal with losing my power for awhile and trying to figure out why it went out.
You say that there are differences between Romney and Obamacare, obviously, but the may health care policy surrounding both of them is the insurance mandate, the right wing option that Obama and the corporate shills in the democratic party are pushing as the best system. This is a right wing position that Obama, when he had a super majority and could have pushed through any single health care system he wanted, decided to push through congress. Not the more centrist government option, and not the liberal single payer.
Okay, for starters...you're not just discussing the Ma plan and Obamacare. You specifically brought up the Heritage plan from the 90s as if it was equivalent to Obamacare...I can provide you with point by point analysis of why this is false. The mandate is a big par, but...how do you square this with Obamacare's historic medicaid expansion? Medicare presrvation? The insurance company regulation?
You also realize that there was a fight for about a year for the healthcare bill and the insurance companies despise it and are lobbying to kill Obamacare? You also realize Obama did NOT have a supermajority in this case? That when Nancy Pelosi got the House to get a public option in, Joe lieberman, vote 60, singlehandedly killed it? That there were people like Ben Nelson in the Senate, along with Tester, Rockefeller, Webb and others? Democrats from very conservative states where Obama was not popular?
Reducing this to "they're just corporate whores" is extremely unfair as to the reality of the situation.
Also your argument that Romney never supported the health insurance that was passed in his state is kind of a a mute point when he went around defending it and pushed it as a health insurance policy that would fit the entire nation.
Because Romney isn't stupid. He saw it was successful and tried to piggyback onto it. But you can't talk about the Massachusetts healthcare option without discussing the role of the MA legislature, which was a Democratic supermajority who kept passing things over Romney's multiple vetoes. Here's my question:
Do you think a Republican governor can be as Republican as he wants with a vetoproof MA legislature full of left wingers? Do you think Mitt Romney, governor of...let's say, Alabama or Utah would govern the same way? Politics can be very situational.Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenSojy posted...LightSnake posted...
Why are you trying to even pretend you're not Whoapro at this point?
I never confirmed or denied being Whoapro, I'm saying that either way I'm not Kensage.
LightSnake posted...You realize this vindictive "how dare everyone call me the wrong name" thing is only driving the nails in deeper to the coffin?
I reiterate, on this account I was posting in civil fashion without trolling, and doing nothing but sharing my honest opinion at first. I was not spamming, I was not insulting anyone.
You decided that, simply because you disagreed with my opinion, that it was a good idea to tag me with the name of an account that you know is repeatedly falsely accused of being the alt of a frequently banned right-wing troll. And that you are at fault for the start of that false rumor to begin with.
You don't seriously think you guys get to gossip about me but I don't get to retaliate, do you?
Dude. All you had to do was just change your habits, go "I'm not Whoapro, don't be silly" and stop acting like Whoapro. People thought I was wrong about it, even when I started spotting really common threads in your arguments and how you argue.
You...freaked out to hell and back. Exactly what you shouldn't have done.Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenLightSnake posted...@rockman202
rockman202 posted...
Oh sorry, had to deal with losing my power for awhile and trying to figure out why it went out.
You say that there are differences between Romney and Obamacare, obviously, but the may health care policy surrounding both of them is the insurance mandate, the right wing option that Obama and the corporate shills in the democratic party are pushing as the best system. This is a right wing position that Obama, when he had a super majority and could have pushed through any single health care system he wanted, decided to push through congress. Not the more centrist government option, and not the liberal single payer.
Okay, for starters...you're not just discussing the Ma plan and Obamacare. You specifically brought up the Heritage plan from the 90s as if it was equivalent to Obamacare...I can provide you with point by point analysis of why this is false. The mandate is a big par, but...how do you square this with Obamacare's historic medicaid expansion? Medicare presrvation? The insurance company regulation?
You also realize that there was a fight for about a year for the healthcare bill and the insurance companies despise it and are lobbying to kill Obamacare? You also realize Obama did NOT have a supermajority in this case? That when Nancy Pelosi got the House to get a public option in, Joe lieberman, vote 60, singlehandedly killed it? That there were people like Ben Nelson in the Senate, along with Tester, Rockefeller, Webb and others? Democrats from very conservative states where Obama was not popular?
Reducing this to "they're just corporate whores" is extremely unfair as to the reality of the situation.
Also your argument that Romney never supported the health insurance that was passed in his state is kind of a a mute point when he went around defending it and pushed it as a health insurance policy that would fit the entire nation.
Because Romney isn't stupid. He saw it was successful and tried to piggyback onto it. But you can't talk about the Massachusetts healthcare option without discussing the role of the MA legislature, which was a Democratic supermajority who kept passing things over Romney's multiple vetoes. Here's my question:
Do you think a Republican governor can be as Republican as he wants with a vetoproof MA legislature full of left wingers? Do you think Mitt Romney, governor of...let's say, Alabama or Utah would govern the same way? Politics can be very situational.
I support the medicaid expansion, in fact, I think it should have gone further, expand it to cover every citizen in the country. And you proved Obama did nothing to fight for it. if Obama cared, he could have easily threatened the dems against the public option, like Lieberman, with boosting their primary oppenent. He could have easily done that, but instead he didn't bother to fight for it at all. And acutally no, insurance companies don't hate it, at least insomuch as they would have preferred the old system. They, well mostly just Aetna (I think) hates that the government blocked their merger, and took it out on the American people by backing out of Obamacare. (sidenote, the fact that Insurance companies can do that under the ACA is bulls***).
Again, if Romney was so against it, why did he push for it on a national level, even after he was governor. You can say that since it was popular while he was governor, he would pay lip service to it, but after he was out, he would have had no reason to give it lip service, why would he care if his previous constituents cared about what he thought?3DS FC:2939-0431-7791Ok, I'm out the door, so I'll answer more in detail later, but for a preliminary
1. What 'primary opponent?' You understand Lieberman wasn't a Democrat and he was also...retiring? So was Ben Nelson, in fact? The Obama. Didn't. Even. TRY! narrative is flawed to hell and back since it assumes Obama can just get Dems elected in red states that don't like him. Please tell me what Obama could do with Lieberman...when Obama had already supported the guy who beat Lieberman IN a primary.
2. Insurance companies don't hate it? Are you kidding me? Why have they lobbied against it so hard then? Because they don't like having to insure what's not profitable?Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard CohenLightSnake posted...Ok, I'm out the door, so I'll answer more in detail later, but for a preliminary
1. What 'primary opponent?' You understand Lieberman wasn't a Democrat and he was also...retiring? So was Ben Nelson, in fact? The Obama. Didn't. Even. TRY! narrative is flawed to hell and back since it assumes Obama can just get Dems elected in red states that don't like him. Please tell me what Obama could do with Lieberman...when Obama had already supported the guy who beat Lieberman IN a primary.
2. Insurance companies don't hate it? Are you kidding me? Why have they lobbied against it so hard then? Because they don't like having to insure what's not profitable?
1. Again, Lieberman announced his retirement in 2011, after the passing of the ACA, so assuming back in 2008-10, Obama could have easily threatened that against Lieberman and any other demo against. Obama could have used the bully pulpit (kinda what Trump is attempting to do now) against those that were against more liberal plans, but he didn't, probably because he agreed with them, that he didn't support the liberal policies. Also, it kinda shows how badly being against a public option hurt Lieberman since his approval ratings fell like a rock around that time and probably attributed to his decision to retire since he knew he had no chance to be reelected.
2. And yes, the only way to give health insurance companies more power, is to do what the republicans are trying to do, allow the insurance companies to literally fine the people themselves and not cover pre-existing conditions.
Also, forgot to bring this up, but many people under the ACA are still uninsured. 28 million people still do not have health insurance and if they get a serious enough condition, could die due to lack of health care. Something that would literally not happen under a single payer system. We should not be supporting this, when we have, right now, record number people supporting a single payer system, a Medicare for all system. And instead of supporting that, we have people like Joe Manchin and Nancy Pelosi fighting against it.3DS FC:2939-0431-7791LightSnake posted...Factually speaking.
Something you've never done on 261, from what I can tell.Here, polish my spear. -- Crantius Colto
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